now if you have something of actual value to talk about, by all means. otherwise please, shut the fuck up with your pestering of adolescence

Racist.

that's it, good llama. come to the straight jacket.

Besides, it seems it's always you libs who like to throw that word around, so if you want to see racism, go look in a fucking mirror.

Why do illegals have the tendency to support a political party that brought us the Klu Klux Klan?

The original House version:

* Southern Democrats: 7-87 (7%-93%)

* Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0%-100%)

* Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94%-6%)

* Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85%-15%)

The Senate version:

* Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5%-95%)

* Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0%-100%)

* Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98%-2%)

* Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84%-16%)

It is true that the Republicans were key in passing this bill .....but that is Northern Republicans and Northern Democrats.....where the Southerners were against it.

After this many of the so called Dixi-Crats switched to the Republican party and many of the northern Republicans switched to the Democratic party.

KKK's 1st targets were Republicans

Dems credited with starting group that attacked both blacks, whites

Further, the first grand wizard of the KKK was honored at the 1868 Democratic National Convention, no Democrats voted for the 14th Amendment to grant citizenship to former slaves and, to this day, the party website ignores those decades of racism, he said.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=441 71

I hear this notion all the time from the likes of Sean Hannity when he calls the GOP the party of Civil Rights and the Democrats the party of the KKK and it is historically inaccurate...drives me nuts.

Resolved, That Congress has no power … to interfere with or control the domestic institutions of the several states … that all efforts by abolitionists … made to induce Congress to interfere with questions of slavery … are calculated … to diminish the happiness of the people, and endanger the stability and permanency of the union.

Actual morons get called morons at least as often as disagreed-with intellectuals...

I thought the KKK used a cross at their rallies, but hell if I know, I've never seen any.

You're not even legal by your own admission, so you don't have a dog in this fight.

So you're all proud to fly a flag from the losing side of a significant historical war? Does that not make you envious of losers, and in turn, losers yourself?

How come Japanese people don't run around waiving the Imperial Japanese flag? It is representative of their Imperial heritage. Maybe because is represents the LOSING side of the war it was used in.

you clearly do not know what you are talking about. you'll just believe anything your told.

All I see is that it is anti-American to fly a flag of a group of states that seceded, and ultimately lost the civil war. It is a loser flag. Having been defeated, it doesn't make sense to support the ideals of the losing side.

your just trying to make something out of nothing for the sake of an argument.

So people fly the flag to represent themselves as being "Southern" regardless of what the flag itself may actually represent to Northerners; Americans; Blacks; Minorities; etc...?

It's like me saying I like to run around with a rainbow flag because I just love rainbows. I'm not gay, just a big rainbow fan. You think casual observers would think I'm a rainbow fan, or something else?

As far as running around with rainbow flags....so what. Even if I didn't approve of the gay lifestyle, what business is it of mine to stop these folks from waving their flag if they are not threatening me and break laws?

A southerner may have fooled himself into thinking it is some heritage / historical thing, but anyone north of Virginia thinks rednecks that fly the thing are racist. It is what this banner is representative of. A matter of perspective, indeed, but in today's society maybe someone can consider decency over their childish efforts to express poor taste.

The flag itself is not a racist symbol, it is in the context of how it is used whether it becomes part of a racist message or not. The KKK also uses Christian symbols like the Cross....does that mean that all Christian churches are racists?

People see a cross, they don't think of hatred or oppression.

People see a confed flag the don't think southern ideals of states rights and anti-taxation.

People see a .....and don't....so you are saying ALL people....which completely undermines your position in the debate.

no matter what. someone out their somewhere will always have a problem with something. its human nature to be stuck up little pricks in one way or another.

Well, I guess it doesn't mean they had the wrong ideals...

Wait... does it?

I don't ever see anyone flying the Nazi flag because they are proud of the "Heritage" it represents.

Maybe people should be allow to scream FIRE in crowded theaters to express themselves too TA.

I'm all for free speech, but hate speech makes my hair stand up. And then hiding behind the whole "heritage" argument is just lame. The fact is that most people see this relic flag as that of the losing side of the war that represented bigotry, slavery, and hatred.

If southerners want to wrap themselves in that, with all of the attached baggage, so be it. Just know you aren't fooling anyone saying it is pride for one's heritage.

Waving a symbol that indeed has multiple meanings is not hate speech in itself. A KKK march waving the flag could be considered hate speech....but that is not because of the flag, it is because of the context of who is using the symbol. There is a big difference.

Either way, I'd prefer all the right-wingos / tea baggers / etc.. to stick to the ultra-patriotic line and post American flags to represent themselves and not something that represents a losing side of a war from the 19th Century.

What people want to say or display as a matter of free speech, what difference does it make what it is or why they are doing it? Seriously, why care? If people want to run around burning the flag or waving a rainbow flag to make their point and I happen to not agree with them...so what?

IF you were Black, you'd see why someone waiving the Confed flag would be a problem.

You can't say that no one should have a problem with how other people express their views because you, nor I, have those kinds of histories. To these people, banners like these are like a constant reminder of their oppression. A poke in the eye.

But they're too sensitive. Skin is too thin. They should just let it all go and move on because it happened so long ago. Right?

You might but too bad.

Come on, if some anti-war protester is burning a flag as part of their exercise of free speech and I don't like it, too bad.

If a gay pride group is waving their rainbow flag in front of a group of pro-life folks....and the pro-life folks don't like it, well, too bad.

You can't have it both ways. We either have the first amendment or we have nothing.

Homosexuality or Anti-War ideals are just that. Ideas that people can be for or against.

Gays marching under the rainbow flag never organized and killed hundreds of anti-gay protesters. Anti war protesters aren't killing troops to prevent them from going to war.

Being Black or Being Jewish isn't something that someone can just change about themselves, and expressing hatred toward these individuals is a whole hell of a lot different than saying those Anti-war protesters hurt your feelings.

My guess is that you would be for the banning of Mein Kampf but against the banning of A Catcher in the Rye....you can't have it both ways....since banning either one of these books would be wrong.

I'm against people displaying their racist tendencies and hiding behind a veil of history or heritage. It is bullshit plain and simple.

Here is what I'm against... I'm against people lynching black people. I'm against people murdering jews. I'm against any symbolism that represents either of those two things, therefore, I'm against the Nazi flag and the Confederate flag.

Hide behind the 1st amendment all you want, but you won't change my mind as to what these symbols represent and about the people who choose to fly such images prominently.

I prefer the Stars and Stripes personally.

Now....connecting speech to killing in the context of now about as ridiculous a comment as you have made in this discussion today. Do you really believe that racist groups are running around killing blacks and Jews today?

You have so miserably lost this debate at this point that I expect you to turn to more emotional comments now.

A black looks at the confed flag and remembers stories of lynchings and burnings.

Does it happen today. God I hope not. That doesn't mean that it never happened and that those events still don't carry strong emotions. You're dismissing these people's feelings because it doesn't happen today.

Flying of the loser confed flag is unique to the US. You're fooling no one.

Find your own damn study.

Using 99.9% was an expression of how confident I am that the Germans have moved on and abandoned the Nazi flag. I'm pretty confident in that number. If someone can prove me wrong, please do so now.

And yes, this whole site is a waste of time. Here Here.

I do consider these exchanges good exercise for my brain though.

Might doesn't make right. It just makes might.

What if they had another war and it came out the other way? Would that mean the questions that you appear to assume are "settled" would be "settled" the OTHER way? You really can't settle a question of constitutionality through gunfights.

Let's keep the discussion in the lower 48 ok 7s? 350 million Americans probably have an opinion about this.

So.. SmokinHerb. What do you mean by flying this flag today?

Nothing like what has happened to them has ever happened to us. Past tragedies can't define their lives, but it can't be forgotten either 'lest we repeat history'..

If we were to follow your line of thinking....and do so from an intellectual objective position.....we would not even be able to come out of our homes let alone we offend someone.

Yes, get over it. That is a valid statement at this point.

History is taught, we are not born with innate knowledge. You obviously are unteachable or you would understand my point.

Btw, I'll keep the discussion wherever I want. You might want to kiss my ass, in the meantime.

Thanks anyway.

btw, there are about 307million Americans right now, not 350.

People are getting fed up with the way the government is going so there's a good chance of seeing states seceding again and a very good chance they will use this flag when they do so.

BTW I fly a Confederate flag 24/7 because I'm proud of my southern heritage!

God help you if your state decides to secede.

Anti-war protesters burning a flag is representative of their dislike of WAR and keeping us and our troops alive and out of the line of fire. At best this is an anti-government expression against the government's need to go to war to achieve some foreign policy goal.

BTW, there have been two schools of thought going all the way back to the Federalist Papers and the creation of the Constitution....these two opposing philosophies---one of supporting a large central government and the other a loose confederation of states with basic federal support----continue to make up the debate today.

It might have been the two different economic systems of the north and the south or the initial cultures in each of these areas....whatever, but these opposing philosophies still to this day exist along these geographic borders. This argument that goes back almost 300 years is at the core of the polarization of the political landscape today.....one could argue that this debate is as American as apple pie.

The confederate flag sits as one of the symbols of many of the groups on the ideological side of small government....loose confederation of states....and really is nothing more to this group. They are not racists, they are states' right advocates as were half of the Continental Congress.

You need to get over the emotion of all of this and start thinking intellectually rather than simply pulling rage out of your but. Understand the true history behind all of this....read about it. Your eyes will be opened to a lot....not that you will change your mind, but you will get another perspective as to the why.

To others: The confederate flag sits as one of the symbols of Hate, Racism, Oppression, and Bigotry.

It isn't my place to say that the 'states rights' people are wrong, and it isn't your place to say that the 'racism' people are wrong.

Is that the jist of the argument here? No one is right? No one is wrong? Let's call the whole thing off?

OK. I'm game. I have work to do before I head home.

To Christians the rainbow flag is a symbol of immorality should we force gays back into the closet and band their flag?

To Muslims the exposed legs of women are regarded as an offense to God....should we force all women to cover up?

This list could go on and on and on......creating one circular debate after another. The point is that we should just all stfu and let people live their lives in freedom, enjoying their liberties to be who ever they want...within the constructs of the law of course....but you get the point.

If you don't like something, turn the channel....don't look at it.....turn the volume down.

F'em, we know what it stands for.

Yes, the legacy of this forced abolition of slavery on the southern people did create a culture of hate and resentment....but this culture has been continually whittled down by law until we now have the equality that was sought in the founding of this country.

-clicks imaginary button-

We've been paying off them saving our ass in the Rev for so long... You'd think after both world wars and Vietnam we'd stop chasing after them, eh? :P

Well, I guess wealth creation happens with war-industries, too.

Why don't you stop portraying yourself as the "oh woe is me, have pity on me for I am an illegal that got sent back to Mexico" and act like the real drama seeking troll that you are?

"" ... It will be a glorious day for our country when all the children within its borders shall learn that the four years of fratricidal war between the North and South was waged by neither with criminal or unworthy intent, but by both to protect what they conceived to be threatened rights and imperiled liberty: that the issues which divided the sections were born when the Republic was born, and were forever buried in an ocean of fraternal blood."

- Lieutenant General John B. Gordon, CSA

Some folks today truly believe this and that's what the flag means to them. Slavery had no flag.

"STICKS AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONES BUT WORDS WILL NEVER HURT ME"

I fly this flag also and will continue to do so.

However, I thought this discussion was about the meaning of this flag. Oh and I'm not a racist. So stated for clarity.

No one invited you to come here illegally although I'm inviting you to leave because obviously you have problems with being here on our dime!